Part 1: Return on Incompetence
Here’s a flash of obvious: When most of us don’t know how to do something, we typically know that we don’t know how to do it.
Let me illustrate: As much as I would love to be an F-18 pilot, I don’t know how to fly an F-18 (or any aircraft, for that matter). As a result, you don’t see me walking around in a flight suit pretending that I am an F-18 pilot.
More to the point, you don’t see me advertising my services as an F-18 flight instructor.
For the exact same reason, you don’t see me trying to sell services as an ice-carving, cat wrestling or underwear-modeling instructor. Why? because when most of us don’t know how to do something, we have a) enough sense and personal integrity not to pretend that we do, and b) enough professional acumen not to pretend that we are qualified to teach it.
Yet this line of logic (and basic sense of professional ethics) seems to escape a disturbingly large group of people who evidently have latched-on to Social Media as an easy meal ticket – one to be earned, in many cases, on the backs of people and companies who don’t know any better.
To add injury to insult, most of these would-be Social Media “experts” aren’t even good at masking the fact that they have no clue what they are talking about. You would think that they would at the very least grasp the most basic building blocks of social media… like the fact that a Twitter follower, a Facebook fan and a YouTube subscriber are essentially the same thing, but evidently, even that simple of a concept escapes some of these folks. In far too many instances, they don’t seem smart enough to realize how little they understand about a discipline they claim to be experts in.
Yet these are the people who increasingly find themselves advising companies around the US as to how to build, integrate, manage and measure social media programs.
Now, those of us who actually do this for a living and take it seriously can spot these posers a mile away, but how are unsuspecting executives supposed to? To the uninitiated, anyone with a neat sounding social media measurement formula and a whiteboard presentation can sound like they know what they’re talking about. (If you had never seen what gold looks like and a self-proclaimed expert came along with a bag of yellow dust and told you it was gold, why wouldn’t you believe them?)
More often than not, the otherwise innocent combination of inexperience, ambition and lack of professional accountability are to blame. But in far too many cases, an unhealthy blend of raw opportunism and… economic conditions have given rise to a mob of social media snake oil salesmen. Whatever the causes may be, it worries me to see how quickly both dangerously inexperienced amateurs and deliberate hacks alike have taken over the “social” management business with their special brand of complete nonsense.
Perhaps more troubling: Very few among those of us working hard to build up this discipline are speaking out against bad practices and obnoxious BS from this unscrupulous crowd.
Look, leadership isn’t just about thought leadership. It isn’t just about being pioneers or evangelists or mavens. It certainly isn’t just about getting the accolades and the followers and the invitations to speak at conferences. Leadership is also about responsibility. And we have a responsibility to keep our community and this field as ethical, professional, and free of BS as we can.
If leaders in this field don’t stand up for its integrity, who will?
Return on Inaction:
The reality is that the hijacking of Social Media by hack jobs isn’t happening in a vacuum: Every instance of an agency, firm or consultant promising results and delivering a goose egg makes it that much less likely that their clients will put their trust in a social media adviser again, genuine or not. And rightly so.
To outsiders, there is no difference between a Chris Penn (who knows his shiznit) and a Joe Shmoe (who couldn’t find his way out of a paper bag if Twitter drew him a map), and that is a big problem: Anyone with a little bit of SEO savvy can have his/her bogus methodology pop up at the top of Google searches. And if no one calls him/her on the BS, there will be no indication anywhere that what s/he is selling is complete nonsense.
Case in point: How many companies have already fallen for misguided methodologies like these? (I use the term misguided since as far as I can tell, their authors seem to have developed these methods in good faith.)
Social Media ROI Calculator no.1. (Go here for the analysis.)
Social Media ROI Calculator no. 2.
Social Media ROI Calculator no. 3.
Bogus Social Media ROI measurement methodology no. 327.
And then there’s this conversation on LinkedIn. Count how many of these folks are consultants. Tell me that level of widespread confusion and ignorance about the mechanics of Social Media doesn’t open the door for abuse and nonsense on a large scale.
We can do better.
If you believe that the hacks and misguided amateurs will eventually go away on their own, you’re wrong. Why would they? The money isn’t bad, the opportunities are growing and there is still virtually zero accountability in this line of work. Every other company is looking for a social media expert to teach them how to either develop, integrate, manage or measure social media, yet the vast majority of business execs couldn’t tell a true professional from an agency flunkie with a Facebook account. You do the math.
We’re going to be on the wrong side of that growth curve for while unless we start establishing standards for the industry. And I mean sooner rather than later.
How Not To Measure Social Media – Part 2
Below is another example of social media nonsense passing for expertise. I don’t want to make any assumptions about anyone’s motives in this specific case, so to be fair, it’s probable that whomever put this together genuinely thought that the thinking behind the equation and methodology was sound. There is no reason to think that anyone at Digital Royalty was trying to make a quick buck off unsuspecting clients when they developed this. (My guess is that they mean well.) But the fact remains that the people behind this thing don’t understand either Social Media or program measurement well enough to teach either. And that’s the danger: Regardless of people’s intentions and motives, bad methodology is bad methodology no matter how you look at it. And bad methodology quickly turns into bad business for everyone involved.
But don’t take my word for it: Watch the video and make up your own mind. (Watch carefully because I’ll have questions for you afterwards.)
And here is the “equation” referenced in that video:
If the video doesn’t play for you, go watch it here.
Rather than listing out all of the flaws in this methodology and equation, let me ask a few questions that outline some of my key concerns. You can try to answer them yourselves or go straight to the answer/comment. You choice. (These were questions I asked the author on her blog post. They remain unanswered.)
1) Why do FB fans and Twitter followers fall into the volume column but YouTube subscribers fall into the engagement column?
Twitter followers, Facebook fans & friends and YouTube subscribers fall into the same category. They should be in the same column. (The “reach” column – not featured in this methodology.) Reach is neither hot nor cold. It’s a hard metric.
Demonstrating a lack of understanding about something as basic as this throws up a bright red flag right off the bat.
2) Why do frequency and reach apply to volume but not engagement or conversions? (Warning: This one may hurt your brain, so feel free to skip ahead.)
Assuming that Volume and Engagement are relevant categories/columns, (and that’s a very big if) Frequency and Reach would apply to both.
Let’s take a step back and look at the definitions of Frequency and Reach:
Frequency is a measure of how often something happens. (An activity, a transaction, etc.)
Reach is a measure of how many people you can touch. To use Amy’s own ecosystem terminology, reach is the number of people who live in your ecosystem.
A subset of reach is how many people within that ecosystem you actually touched or engaged with for a particular campaign.
Once you realize that, you start to see how the concept of a volume column is a bit shaky: You would have to include “reach” as an element of the “volume” column even though they are basically two words describing the same thing. See how this makes no sense?
But I digress.
Based on this model, Frequency (of interactions) should also show up in the engagement column: (How often do you engage?) Likewise, Reach would manifest itself in the engagement column in terms of how many people were touched/reached through… engagement.
If a Conversion column exists, then Frequency also applies to it: Frequency of conversions = how often conversions happen. (Or transactions, for that matter.)
Regardless of how flawed your method may be, this is simple, basic, common sense stuff that can be plugged in properly IF you understand it.
The lack of basic understanding of reach and frequency raises another red flag.
3) What does “actual activity and action” mean?
Transactions? Website visits? Who knows? Knowing what you’re talking about matters. Letting other people what you’re talking about matters too. “Actual activity and action” doesn’t mean anything.
Another red flag.
4) The size of your “ecosystem” = Reach. How can reach fall into both the cold and warm columns?
The size of an ecosystem is the definition of reach. Calling something two different things doesn’t actually make it two different things. (This doesn’t happen when you know what you’re talking about.)
Having the same element appear twice in the same equation is bad math.
The red flags keep popping up.
5) Return on Influence = Adding 3 web analytics values to sentiment x reach (again)? Seriously? That’s the equation?
Before we dive deeper into this, the equation needs more work, starting with the fundamental flaws I already outlined.
Once you’ve revamped the basic elements of the method and equation, you have to then understand how the pieces fit mathematically (assuming they even do). Throwing a bunch of unrelated values together does not constitute serious social media measurement.
6) What unit of measure do you use? If it’s a “return,” what are we talking about? What does the number mean? What is it in reference to?
If the equation is supposed to create an influence index, then it doesn’t need a unit of measure. Just call it a Social Influence Index (SII) or whatever you want, and you’ll be fine. Whatever number the equation spits out is your “score”. Fair enough. There is nothing scientific about it, but you can probably get away with it.
But if you are going to call it “return on X,” you need a unit of measure. In real Return on Investment, you distill the investment in time, human capital and other resources to $$$. The “return” on that investment therefore is calculated in $$$ as well. Money is the common unit of measure. The ROI equation gives you a ratio of money invested to money earned. The same rules apply here: If this is to be a “return on influence,” what unit of measure is used to calculate that ratio of return?
Without a clear unit of measure, you cannot calculate “return” on something. Basic 101 stuff. Learn it.
7) If “warm” data is “intangible and hard to measure,” why is it part of the equation to begin with?
Either it’s soft data and thus anecdotal or it is hard data and it can be used here. You have to pick one. You can’t claim that “warm” data is intangible/hard to measure and then add it to your “equation”. This is not a gray area.
Data isn’t cold, warm or hot. There’s only reliable data and unreliable data.
8) (Just added) Why does the equation on the board not match the equation in the graphic?
I knew something else about that equation was bugging me, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. Yet it was under my nose the whole time:
In the video, the “cold” half of the equation is interpreted as (Page Views x Visits) / Time Spent
In the graphic, the “cold” half of the equation is interpreted as (Page Views x Visits) + Time Spent
Which is it? Do we divide by Time Spent or do we add Time Spent?
(Thanks to @AnnaObrien for pointing it out.)
Incidentally, Frequency is not defined either in net page views or net unique visits either…
… And most of the KPIs explained early in the video seem to completely vanish…
… but by this point, who cares.
I could go on and on and on, but you get the picture: At first glance, the equation and the methodology look solid to the average person: Clean graphics, columns on a whiteboard, buzzwords we’ve all heard before, the promise of a digital agency backing it up, etc. Because the video and equation has already been posted on a variety of sites that fail to ask basic stink test questions by people who don’t know what flaws to look for, it makes its way to the top of search queries. Before you know it, complete nonsense goes mainstream and passes for real methodology because of three things: Decent packaging, Search, and confirmation of validity by other non-experts who barely skimmed the material.
Ca-ching.
This is how real Social Media expertise gets hijacked, and how Social Media management – as a discipline – loses credibility in the business world before it even gets a chance to prove its worth.
Last words:
This stuff isn’t just going to go away on its own. It’s great to see some folks in the Social Media management community speak out against this kind of BS, but they are the exception rather than the rule. At some point, the incessant retweeting and arse-kissing has to start making room for more relevant and responsible behavior: Call a cat a cat. When you see BS, don’t just look the other way. Call it out. Ask real questions. Put people to the test. That’s what leaders do. That’s what professionals do. We can’t keep allowing remedial BS to invalidate the real work being done in this space by those of us who actually care about it.
Rant over.
Brand Building and Online Marketing Blog 
Compared to what I’ve seen from many ROI + ROE + etc presentations at expensive conferences, Amazing Spiderman Lady has something quite remarkable: A system.
Does that system glaze over a lot of things in order to present a confident handle on uncertain data? Absolutely.
“Confirmation of validity by other non-experts who barely skimmed the material.” That describes most of what goes on in SM.
Remember, you have to build up your community by presenting yourself as an expert resource before you can get your followers to buy into your affiliate program. =P
A system, sure, but a deeply flawed one that measures absolutely nothing of substance… And manages to do so incorrectly at that.
Though Seth, you know, I could almost forgive the fact that the equation doesn’t measure anything of substance if at least its elements made sense. But there’s just too much wrong with this for me to have anything positive to say about it. I’ve had people tell me with absolute confidence that Benjamin Franklin was President of the United States… Yet good old Ben Franklin never enjoyed that honor. Being confident doesn’t make you right. 😉
I was too bored by that video to pay attention after the first minute, so I couldn’t answer the following questions. That said, the social media charlatans out there are numerous. I even know a few, though they earnestly believe that they are knowledgeable. I think they don’t even know enough to know how much they don’t know. Or they learned a couple of things last year and figured they were done.
Personally, I think once you gain a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in social media, you realize that what you need to know is rapidly changing and daunting in scope. So much so that the notion of calling yourself an expert seems laughable even as thousands of clueless newbies are hanging out their shingles. It’s a problem with no solution in sight.
@CarriBugbee
I think you’re right, Carri. On all counts.
Hi Olivier. Great post, yet again.
It seems measurement currently ends with the non financial factors…which is then called ROI! What is worse, is that some of your examples of ROI calculators (snake oil) have come from the social media monitoring vendors. Surely they should be encouraging clients to measure ROI in the correct way, prove its true value (on cost savings and revenue generation) and then get them signed up on 3 year contracts?
Do you think that is because some of these vendors only ‘listen’ to the social web, which will give you things like volume, followers, RT’s etc but doesn’t let them track and archive the conversations, interactions and leads all the way to a sale? Or because they aren’t measuring over a long enough period to see the business metrics play out ie – treating social media as a campaign?
@EdHartigan
Ed, you make a good point. I think it may come from a divide between folks who understand how to build monitoring and measurement platforms, and folks who work as analysts within companies. These are two completely different disciplines.
Measurement is not Analysis. Analysis is not measurement.
The guy who designs the perfect surfboard doesn’t necessarily know how to tear up the half pipe. Know what I mean? Likewise, the kid who can win gold medals doesn’t necessarily know thing one about how to design and manufacture a snowboard. This is the same thing. 😉
I always follow you because I’m interested in social media and branding because I’m a graphic designer and I say you are right. Ok, just my two cents, I’m not a social media expert nor SEO guru, so this is just my opinion, but I’m deeply interested in everything is around (or linked to) my business area and I read a lot – both online and books – about social media, branding, adv, creativity and so on. But I can’t say – and I don’t want to say – that I’m an expert in these areas. I’m only curious and interested to know more. And I want to know how things really work when I client comes to me and say something very stupid he was told by some “very SEO/social media/etc etc guru”…
I have to say that also here in Italy there are plenty of charlatans about social media, SEO and also graphic design (because, you know, if you’ve got a PC, Photoshop and Illustrator you are a graphic designer…). The real problem is that a lot of clients trust in these people, so it’s very difficult to let them understand that is quite impossible – it’s just an example – to “jump” at the very first page in Google in two months (perhaps with a website completely made in Flash…) or to duplicate their revenue only with a Facebook/Twitter profile etc.
When you say them the truth sometimes they think you are quite bizarre while charlatans are right…
But I will never stop to say my clients that a brand new corporate identity is not made in two weeks, that SEO is not “jumping at the very first page in Google in two months”, that facebook/Twitter & Co. are not magic tools for their revenue and that every people who says the contrary doesn’t say the truth.
I appreciate that, Maurizio. 🙂
We have the same thing in the US: SEO hacks charging ridiculous fees but delivering nothing. Make-believe graphic designers selling other people’s work… Every industry and every discipline has charlatans. The amount of $$$ they cause companies to waste on BS every year must easily be counted in billions of dollars. It’s sad.
All we can do is hold true to our own ethics and do the best we can. 😉
I could swap the word Marketing for Social Media here and it’d all be true too. Sadly. It’s a very old problem that won’t be resolved easily I’m afraid. There have always been two types of Marketing folks –> those that scientifically measured, artfully produced and efficiently delivered strategic and comprehensive intiatives. And those that put on a Sales hat, talked buzz words, creatively crunched numbers and arranged glitzy, glossy one-offs that fizzled as quickly as they were launched (but somehow caught the eye of the corporate purse string holder).
The smart companies that CARE about long-term results will know how to cull the crowd of Social Media pros/agencies. The companies that don’t won’t be in business long enough to matter.
At the end of the day, people (both the clients and the pros) think and perceive differently. Just ask 10 people to “define” social media OR marketing. And you’ll get 10 completely different answers. I agree with what you wrote here because I think the same way as you (It all seems “logical” to me). Other people may not agree because they think differently. But that doesn’t make them snake oil salesmen (I do acknowledge, however, that some people are complete frauds looking to make a quick/easy buck though.)
I’m not defending the naive non-experts who claim to be gurus. However I do believe the majority truly think they are doing right by their clients.
This reminds me of the Blind Men and the Elephant story –> even more apropos because the constant industry changes keep us all in the dark to a certain degree. 🙂
Fair enough.
Though, re-read the first couple of paragraphs of the post. Is there a possibility that so many people truly believe they know and understand a discipline they don’t? Don’t we all know when we… don’t know how to do something?
Thanks for the comment. 😉
I had this thought last night – most of the true social media experts are never self-labeled. If you really get the idea of leadership, you probably won’t brag about it, because bragging about it is a pretty decent indicator that you don’t understand it.
So when a bio reads “John Doe, a social media expert/guru/maven who knows how to increase your ROI, expand your reach, and make you more money…” it’s a pretty good indicator John Doe doesn’t have enough other people promoting the fact that he’s a leader – he has to take care of that himself.
Me? I know nothing. I just like Twitter.
This is a fair point Brandon, but just as the advertising & traditional marketing industry has roles that are defined and filled with professionals who know how to do them, the social media marketing industry will too – at some point. We’re not there today.
In addition to Olivier’s great post on whether or not your social media director is qualified (https://thebrandbuilder.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/is-your-social-media-director-qualified/) I’d love to see him take a stab at defining those roles by title & duties. (Don’t shoot me TBB!) I’m not sure if one problem won’t be that many day-to-day social media activities aren’t done by various roles already established in companies (product marketing, marcom, customer support, the CMO, etc.) such that there are added layers to what already exists.
Our biggest problem in the space we play in is:
— anyone can be a “consultant”
— consultants have varying levels of expertise and only the ethics of that particular person determine their claims
— clients/employers with increasing needs/confusion are pushing people without expertise to deliver
— the handful of consultants with true expertise, whether intuitive or from heavy experience are only being called if companies are aware they exist, so there’s a visibility problem for some of those folks (get that book done, TBB!)
Combine this with the desire to make money and you get folks selling ROI like this: “If working with us is going to bring you an additional $1000 plus each and every month, what are you waiting for? Your Twitter campaign will increase your website traffic by a lot of money.” http://www.seomarketingzone.com/twitter-followers-marketing-and-building/
We’re all fighting a credibility hurdle when this stuff is so prevalent.
Ah. Just what I needed. Another project. 😀
That link is whack. I’m not even commenting on how I feel about the concept of “buying” 100,000 follower packages to drive traffic to a website. My soul needs a break.
Thanks for the comment and suggestions. Good stuff. 🙂
What continually leaves me scratching my head is that executives who spend their time up to their eyeballs in marketing metrics would fall for this stuff in the first place.
An answer, I think, may lie in my forced use of the term “marketing metrics.”
One of the curious things about social media is that it appears to draw from a variety of different disciplines: advertising (reach/frequency), direct marketing (response/action), PR (share of voice). In traditional organizations these disciplines are pretty siloed. Each has a rigorous measurement methodology, but it’s fairly unusual for an organization to aggregate these measurements or consider that a contact point may have multiple vectors. It’s a bit like the five blind guys and the elephant.
So I guess whether an executive buys the concept of “return on influence” depends on the executive. Nonetheless, I’m baffled that anyone at or near the top of the marketing food chain buys any of this, at least without asking a bunch of hard questions relevant to his/her own discipline. Or calls in a few colleagues to ask, “does this make any sense in your world”?
As an ex-direct response guy, one of the biggest problems I have with social media measurement in general is that the medium simply hasn’t been around long enough to yield predictive data. For that reason alone, an approach like Olivier’s that uses a fairly traditional assessment of empirical data would make the most sense to me. It might even convince me to do some limited testing. That is, assuming I was convinced first that my customers and my market supported such a test in the first place.
Agreed. Anyone who includes “expert” or “guru” or “king” or anything along those lines on their business cards, websites, etc. are frauds. Absolutely.
But by the same token, if you DO know how to help companies expand their reach, increase ROI (or at least help companies understand how to calculate it better), tweak their sales, integrate social media across their silos, etc. you shouldn’t be ashamed to say it.
There is a difference between claiming to be an expert and stating that you know how to do something well. 😉
At the end of the day, the proof’s in the pudding. Know what I mean?
See you on the Twitternets. 😉
OK, I have a problem with this. Well, not the “guru” or “king” part, but what the heck are you supposed to call yourself? It seems like the community is making up words simply for the sake of not saying the dreaded “social media expert.” No offense, Olivier, but in your Twitter profile you call yourself a “social media honcho.” Honcho comes from the Japanese for “chief” or ahem, king…
I don’t think someone identifying themselves as a “social media expert” is a red flag that they are a snake oil salesman. Unfortunately, the average Joe doesn’t know that we in the social media circles frown upon this, and tend to say “social media expert” when describing someone who knows a lot about social media.
So, at what point does one get to refer to themselves as a social media “expert”? Never?
I think instead of telling people that certain titles matter at *all* we should be telling them to pay attention to their actions. What’s it matter what we call ourselves if the proof *is* there? Or, as I like to say, watch someone’s feet, not their mouths.
By the way, I prefer “social media babe.” 😉
I thought about “social media dude,” but it didn’t quite do the job for me. I also didn’t want to call myself a consultant. That’s just too general a term, as you pointed out.
Honcho is basically a manager. More of a squad leader than a king, but yes, it’s a leadership position. It implies some level of proficiency without making claims of overrated expertise or guru-ness. It works for me because that is the role I play with many of my clients. There is a level of leadership and management to every project I work on.
But yeah… I see what you mean. 😉
And you’re right about the book. Working on it.
Interesting post. here are a few more pointers to the purveyors of snake oil:
http://econsultancy.com/blog/4170-how-to-spot-a-social-media-snake-oil-salesman
Main points being:
Questionable background / more talk than walk, missing case studies / personal social media prolifacy as proof/ unrealistic approach/ lack of professionalism / scare tactics – insult the competition / big bill-little ROI (which is what you focus on here.
Excellent link, Jonathan. I just read it and it is spot-on. Thanks. 🙂
This is just the age-old “use big words, throw in an ‘algorithm or some sort of algebraic concoction and hope people are impressed enough to buy it” approach.
That Spiderman shirt is pretty cool. though.
You can’t go wrong with vintage superhero T-shirts. I’ll give you that.
I realized about halfway through that I was feeling confused when I pride myself on my grasp of social media and analytics (being a marketing data analyst by trade), and … ohhhhh. Right. If you throw out a bunch of terms that sound all marketer-y and confuse them by mentioning the word “You Tube” they’ll just throw up their hands and hire you, the “expert.”
Phew.
Oliver –
You know your shtuff, for sure. It’s incredible the formulaic methods you have put into social media and the precise measurements that have resulted.
Many people, me included, are learning this as we go along. Have I ever positioned myself as a Social Media Expert? Hell no. But I do grasp the knowledge of marketing and advertising metrics measurement so I “get” what you’re saying. Applying it is a completely different thing.
Contrary to MANY marketers’ beliefs, reach and frequency are measurable in social media. How to measure and convert into connections (or return) is the challenge. These “survivors of marketing 101” don’t seem to realize that plugging the terms into a formula and “branding” it isn’t enough. And, like you said, they make the rest of the people (doing it right) look like hacks as well…
I commend you on this post. And I thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with the world.
Keep Cooking!
Andrew B. Clark
The Brand Chef
Thanks, Andrew.
“Survivors of Marketing 101” made me laugh. I might have to borrow that. 😀
You are 100% right.
Every time I see someone writing about Roi and proposing strange formula, I get really upset.
I believe that while a consistent measurement system has not yet found and, maybe, it does not exist, the only real way to deliver results is to define along with client, within the strategy definition, your own metrics.
To support them find data and benchmark.
Right. I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all system either. Every company is different. Different goals, different capabilities, different access to measurement, different means by which they reach their customers, etc. To think that one formula or spreadsheet can effectively accomodate every company just isn’t realistic.
A better solution is to have a measurement philosophy and framework that can be adapted to each company. Measurement and analysis have to be customized to each organization, in my opinion: Same Lego blocks, same fundamental framework, but a slightly different assembly every time. 😉
Thanks for the comment.
I would add that, clearly, clients had had standard metrics for all other communication activities.
A TRP is a TRP and I can compare it with my competitors’ TRP and this makes everything more complicated.
Appreciate the attempt to establish standards and be rigorous and critical with flawed models. I really do. But it strikes me that there might be a philosophical contradiction at work here.
One of the things that the internet in general and social media in particular has made possible is, as others have pointed out, the rise of the amateur and the end of expertise.
It’s true that the rise of the amateur is not quite the same thing as a self-proclaimed expert who doesn’t know anything. But it is also true that 1) social media is as much about trial and error as expertise (b/c it’s pretty easy and cheap–compared to making a tv spot and buying media on a network) and 2) when you pick a field which is largely about democratizing information and skills, you’d better be prepared for a lot of competition people eager to be all democratic.
And finally, as you undoubtedly know, most of the models we use to measure traditional media are flawed as well (e.g. Nielsen). What makes them useful despite their limitations is that they are standardized, so even if we aren’t measuring “reality” (which is impossible anyway) we at least have a consistent basis of comparison to evaluate against competition and our own past performance
I completely agree with you. This discipline is nascent and evolves so fast that what we thought we knew last month is probably no longer relevant today. So we’re all amateurs, to a certain extent. And frankly, I’m a big fan of people who consider themselves to be “amatore” for life. If you aren’t in a constant learning mode, you can’t evolve as a professional.
That said, while some of us accept that dynamic as continuous learning and improvement that adds to an already solid stack of relevant professional experience, others think that taking a class and throwing together a “method” they can package and sell is just as valid a way to claim their piece of this industry. And that’s lame.
I will never criticize someone who admits that they don’t understand something and are trying to learn on the job. But I don’t have a lot of warm feelings for people who choose to sell themselves as knowledgeable service providers when they know they aren’t. 😉
And yes, traditional media measurement models are horrible. I can’t believe they have been the “standard” for so long. It boggles the mind, really.
Great comment. Much appreciated.
Great post Olivier, I’m quoting a post by Gartner analyst Anthony Bradley here but check this out.
“An August 2009 survey by Mzinga and Babson Executive Education found that 84% of respondents were not measuring the ROI of their social media initiatives. ”
“You could argue that this represents a possible 84% failure rate if you consider ROI as the measure of success and believe that “you get what you measure” or in this case you don’t get what you don’t measure.”
I have to think that what happens is that they think they know what to measure; or are missing the point on what to measure. From where that comes from, I can point to 2 things. 1) Your snake oil sales people or in this case that ridiculous video or 2) They are complete novices and are learning as they are going. Or perhaps a combo of both. But when I read the results of the Mzinga study, all I could think was, “What the hell is going on here”? there is a problem and most people are not willing to admit it. And it is they don’t know what to measure, how to measure and then what to do with the results.
I know this as a fact that these types of sites and people make it so so difficult for me to actually do my job, that I find myself becoming overwhelmed with the amount of work it takes to get a client “back” to square one. Thus being jaded by the whole industry is a constant struggle.
Right.
Well, you know, six months ago, most agencies and marketing “pros” were claiming that the ROI of Social Media was either is too hard or impossible to calculate. Even outside of ROI, measurement as a whole was frowned upon. Remember the “why would you want to measure friends and conversations” argument?
Your last point is at the heart of my beef with this:
“These types of sites and people make it so difficult for me to actually do my job, that I find myself becoming overwhelmed with the amount of work it takes to get a client “back” to square one.”
Exactly. I’m in the same boat. Having to undo the damage done by the first set of Social Media “experts” who screwed the pooch is obnoxiously difficult and emotionally draining.
Thanks for the comment, Marc. 🙂
Thanks for this post, Olivier.
And Carri, we met here in Southern Oregon a few months ago. I so agree with the more you know the more you realize you have to learn. It’s truly overwhelming some days!
I appreciate the honesty with which some of you shared—we are all learning, we don’t know it all, and probably never will. The frustration is that no matter the profession, there are flashy snake-oil types that threaten taint the honesty of our brand.
God help us to keep our integrity.
Krystal
Yep. Ironically, this is Social Media we’re talking about. And those of us who know how to do some of this stuff are sharing this knowledge daily, comparing notes online, sharing best practices in the open, etc.
So people like you who are eager to learn can, and I absolutely love that access to good information is so open and readily available. (Heck, I learn better ways of doing what I do almost every day.)
So my question is… why is it that so many of these bogus “experts” don’t engage with us like you do and at least try to make their models work?
Folks like you who take the time to learn this stuff rock my world. If everyone took the same honest approach to getting good at something, this kind of blog post wouldn’t need to be written.
Thanks a bunch for the comment, Krystal. 🙂
Great post and I know you also pointed out the flaws of the video on Sports Networker. I think it is great that you are attempting to inform the would-be clients of the people masking themselves as experts.
I’m a Director of New Media for a company focused almost entirely on digital media. I get paid to do this and it is difficult to explain why our services cost what they do when a random person is offering to be a social media expert for half the price even though they can’t deliver.
I swear if I hear another person proclaim themselves as a “social media guru” I might actually punch myself in the face.
Thanks for writing a post that isn’t afraid to “go there.”
😀 I know how you feel.
Let’s ignore all the complete stupidity behind the metrics and just look at the equations..
How the hell does (reach x frequency)/ Timespent
turn into–> pageviews x visits+ timespent
These equations are not even remotely near each other. If you agreed with her though the whole video you should at least get to the end and be like, “wtf, the final equation is not build on anything said previously in the video.”
Am I the only one that see this?
LOL. I’ve been wondering about that myself. 😀
I agree with your desire to bring some professional credence to this profession, I do question your tone a little bit.
You would probably rank me in the ranks of the Charlatans – I dabble in social media and have been paid by a few companies to show them the ropes and start engaging with their fans in a meaningful way using these fun tools. I’ve also worked extensively in the area of teaching social media basics to job seekers who have been impacted by the current recession. No one has measured me and judged me a fraud (as far as I know anyway) but I am also not at all interested in your measurements of return and talk of frequency and reach and volume.
Your arguments above about how to measure returns on Social Media efforts are way beyond me and I’ll assume you know what the heck you’re talking about. Putting numbers to my work has never been a focus of mine. The manner of engagement and the depth of the connections and the value to the INDIVIDUAL is what means something to me and that’s what I help people understand. I’m really not interested in why “frequency and reach apply to volume but not engagement or conversions”. I am absolutely interested in the 5 job seekers I taught to listen to the social media conversations in their chosen industry. Those 5 people think I’m an expert. I don’t claim or accept that title but I’m very glad those folks have a little more confidence in their job search and a sharp tool in their repertoire. If that translates into a company or organization reaching out to ask me for help with their engagement efforts, I’m not going to turn them away and tell them to go to the Spiderman lady or to you. I’m going to help them out the best way I can.
In the ned what i’m saying is that the platforms and technologies we use to connect came out a deep legacy of DIY attitude. It has always been about learning as you go and reaching out to others as you do it. I don’t disagree with your effort to shine a light on big fat fakers, but trying to weed out what you consider “fakes” runs the risk of killing that DIY spirit. That would be sad.
Take Care
Ben
Ben,
If you teach what you know, you are not a charlatan.
The fact that you freely admit that some elements of the social media world (like measurement) are beyond your expertise squarely puts you on the ethical side of the fence. I applaud you for that.
You would be a charlatan if one of your clients offered you $30K to develop a measurement methodology for them and you agreed to do it, knowing full well that you didn’t know how. It doesn’t sound like you’re that type of person. 😉
Oliver, In your example, I wouldn’t call the person who takes the $30K a charlatan, they would be an opportunist.
A charlatan would be the person who advertises themselves as something they are not and/or is intentionally selling a bogus product or service.
If they truly believe that what they are selling is the “real deal” and it is bogus, they are simply incompetent and this happens in nearly all professions.
Andrew
I hear ya, Andrew. But people know when they aren’t qualified to perform brain surgery, drive 18-wheelers, rescue hostages, teach 16th Century Literature, style hair, raise goats or grow potatoes. This is no different. When a company contacts me and asks me to do something for them that I don’t know how to do, I point them to someone who does. Why? Because it’s the right thing to do. And whether or not people actually do the right thing, they always make a choice to do so or not to do so.
Opportunism is just another word for charlatanism.
I’ll end with this thought: How did companies come to think that the person or agency in question is an expert in the field of Social Media in the first place? Could it be because the person/agency advertised themselves as a Social Media expert, maybe? Could it be that they built an ROI calculator or published an ROI equation to attract clients? Even though they probably KNOW that they’re really dabbling with this stuff and shouldn’t be selling themselves as professors? 😉
Sorry, man. I’m not falling for the “opportunism” argument. Everyone knows when they’re not being truthful. Especially when make the effort to advertise their services.;)
It’s always wise to seek the counsel of a professional or expert, but one thing I seem to notice about the REAL professionals and REAL experts is that they very seldom refer to themselves as being such.
Real expertise comes from understanding that everything is always changing. Real expertise recognizes that refering to one’s self as an expert implies complete mastery of a subject and, knowing that the subject is in constant flux, it is therefore impossible to be an expert.
As So-crates (I prefer the Bill and Ted pronunciation, tyvm) said, “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” By that standard, those who would claim to know it all, prove they know nothing in my book.
Oh, and the 28 Days Later poster made my day. “Day 20: Bullsh*t Milkshake.” Rock on, social media dude. Rock on.
“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” That Socrates dude was wise. 😀
That’s why formulaic little methods and silly equations don’t work here. Every company is different. Every program, project and measurement methodology has to be customized.
Every project is like learning how to do this all over again. (Which is why I like it so much.)
Thanks for the comment, Brian.
Social Media ROI is the greatest oxymoron since Military Intelligence. Yet many of the self proclaimed and even respected “social media experts” use ROI and Lead gen and social media in the same sentence. Those that do are usually tied to some type of agency model.
Hence if you’re trying to get clients you use the hot trend of the day “social media” with ROI as that’s what everyone is has been conditioned to ask in regards to marketing investment.
ROI is short term and social media is about trust, advocacy, listening, engagement, affinity..All long term “value” oriented objectives. Did I really calculate a ROI to justify my response to your blog post..Hell no, just as I don’t calculate an ROI to blog, tweet or engage. Why would I waste time on a ROI calc to have a conversation? I either want to engage or I don’t.
Radian 6 CEO had a great quote..What do you want to measure? the social or the media and this is where we all get wrapped up in our underwear trying to apply traditional marketing roi (metrics-tactics and kpi-economic impact) from traditional digital media to newer media like social media channels/networks.
The problem is the fundamental objectives are the inverse of each other. Can I get a lead out of twitter? Yes, but it’s a nice by product. I sure wouldn’t stake my job on positioning twitter as a lead gen tool. Social media is about conversation not selling and this is where we fall off the bridge and the bull sh%t agency-ROI-social media tactics come into play.
Nuff said..nice spider-man shirt.
ED
😀
I can’t stand the term “lead gen.” Every time I see someone try to assign a $ value to a lead, I tune them out.
Though… while SM isn’t about selling, the relationships built partly through SM, and the way information spreads via SM can and often do impact transactional behavior. So you can tie sales to SM the same way that you can tie sales to any other type of activity. You just have to understand those mechanisms and how they work with each other. But yeah. I know what you mean and I agree.
Cheers.:)
Does anyone know what a TV expert is? Could that be someone who installs cable? Writes sitcoms? Reviews programs? Sells flat-screen TVs at the local big box store? Or someone who has the entire cable line-up memorized from channel surfing?
Social media has about a zillion more moving pieces, platforms and tactics, many of which are evolving by the day. This is why I try to avoid terms like “expert.” I think I know more than most and less than some, but that could change tomorrow. For better or for worse.
I think of myself as an explorer, pioneer, researcher and mostly a marketer who has a bunch of social media skills in my toolbox. I’m actually teaching a class in social media at Portland State University this fall. But I’m still not an expert.
I may be as close as anyone to being expert marketer on Twitter (I’ve managed more accounts in more categories than anyone I know of), and I have a lot of expertise with Facebook. I try every other platform I have time for, but there will never be enough hours in the day to be an expert. As all these platforms become more robust and more complex, I think people will have to specialize. After all, I could experiment all day long with third-party tools just for Twitter and never get through them all.
@CarriBugbee
Well put. If I didn’t have such a great network of people who know the 90% of stuff I don’t know (and don’t have time to know,) I’d be screwed.
Having that kind of community matters a lot. 🙂
I found your post to be a great rant! I was hoping to get the answer to the Social Media measurement question though because that baffles me.
I don’t claim to be an expert, but I share my knowledge with organizations because I do know that I know enough to help others. I agree that it is frustrating when someone comes on the scene with no background and can tout themselves as an expert.
Also, I had to give a little chuckle when I went to your bio and your languages added up to 234.92%. I don’t know what this means.
Does it mean you know English and French 100% and you know 34.71% of the Spanish language and 2.1% of Italian?
Just trying to figure out the math…thanks for a very informative post!
My language skills can’t be combined into a single score. The rest you got right. 😀
The truth is that there’s no “answer” to the Social Media measurement question, and the sooner we realize that, the better off everyone will be.
All that we can turn to is solid, scientific, informed measurement methodology. It isn’t SM-specific but does take into account SM and a variety of new tools that allow us to measure more than we could five years ago.
There is no magic formula or silver bullet. Every company is different: Different objectives, different capabilities, different culture, different sales cycles, different toolsets, different circumstances… So looking for one measurement scheme to rule them all is futile. It doesn’t work that way.
If you understand the fundamentals of measurement, the pros and cons of cause and effect and correlation, and aren’t afraid to ask hard questions and work your ass off until you get a real answer, you’ll be able to do this. If not, you’ll go down some pretty scary measurement rat holes.
For now though, check out this primer: http://www.slideshare.net/thebrandbuilder/olivier-blanchard-basics-of-social-media-roi
Olivier,
I consider myself a student, not an expert. I will always consider myself a student, even if I become knowledgeable in a subject. The word ‘expert’ implies knowledge saturation, while students are always striving for more. Hopefully I will become knowledgeable enough to help other students – that’s the goal.
Let’s talk about the victims. It’s business owners and stakeholders (at least in the marketing arena) who don’t know enough to tell the difference between a sheep and a wolf. They don’t even know about your blog. Your blog is being read and commented on by social media “experts” by and large. How’s that for ironic?
No comment. 😉
Olivier,
I have been agonizing over this very topic for some time now. For me, it’s not only about the ROI measurement and depth of understanding there, it’s about the strategy behind behind implementing and integrating ANY tactic or tool into your marketing mix.
Every time I turn around, I fall over yet another charlatan, transparent as hell (at least to me), claiming to be a guru, jedi, maven, expert, evangelist and a bunch of other crapola. Problem is, they are advising people who don’t know enough to not trust them. I’ve been a marketer for 20 years. I know what I’m doing – this is my career. What I’m finding, on a daily basis, is people who have NO marketing background, experience or knowledge, bellying up to the bar, making wild claims about social media, their expertise and blah blah blah, and actually selling people on this shiggedy.
I have had prospective clients tell me that successful and well-respected agency principals have told them that their best strategy is to market their products via Facebook ads. Facebook ads – as if that’s the flipping answer to everything!
So, there are charlatans trying to jump on the latest greatest bandwagon, which happens to be social media, make a quick buck and then get out before they are discovered. And then there are, regrettably, bona fide agency and pr people who should know better, but who, somewhere along the line, forgot to do their homework. And who believe that social media is not hard stuff, so they can put their 26 year old account executives in charge of it, never mind that strategy part. Or that little transparency thing.
Gah. Blood boiling – which is the sign of a damn good conversation.
Thanks for saying the things I think so often. And so well. I think you are one smart cookie.
You had me at “Shiggedy.” 😀
Awesome. Thank you.
My approach with my clients, when we first discuss social media and strategy, is to admit right off the bat I don’t know everything there is to know about social media and it is a continually evolving field that changes. I do my best to keep up with it and research it and provide my clients that information.
Before I even work with a client and accept income from them, I believe it’s important to put together a written proposal that outlines in detail what it is the client wants, what I will deliver, and how the clients will know that they’ve gotten specific achievable results. I would suggest that a company should ask someone they might hire for social media (or any type of consulting) to put together a written proposal that demonstrates that the person understands what the company wants and also demonstrates that the person actually has the capability of following through on what the company wants. And if they don’t the company has that proposal and can accordingly hold them to it.
Good idea. Though anyone can put together a proposal that sounds legit… And I’ve seen a few generic ones get passed around on the web already. *sigh*
That’s true anyone can do that. But if you include specific ways they will know if working with you has been successful, you increase the accountability on your end.
Great pull-the-curtain-down post Olivier. Kudos.
And…what Shelly said. 🙂
@KimBrater
There’s a curtain? Oh… that’s what that was! 😀
I’m a little torn by this post, Oliver.
On the one hand, I’ll give a hearty AMEN to your core point about the proliferation of social media charlatans. And I actually did laugh out loud at some of the ROI calculators and the video.
On the other hand…we’re in a business where the ethos is to give credence to people who say “I don’t know, I’m learning too.” We reward those people with status and integrity.
And we intrinsically KNOW that there is value in social media marketing, but can’t quite quantify it in ways that other marketing efforts can.
Now, imagine this were any other industry. Say, nuclear energy. How would you feel about someone saying “we NEED to use nuclear power!”
It’s cheap, is abundant and is good for the environment. Sounds like a bandwagon you’d want to jump on, right?
And when you thought about buying nuclear power, you got someone who says “well, I’m just learning about this stuff myself, and nobody knows exactly how to make it work but here are some good examples of when it worked and when it didn’t…”
And when questioned about the value of nuclear energy, the response was “Dunno. It seems to be good for some things but I’m not really sure how much it costs or what you’ll get for it, but I think one of these power plants will cost around $200M and should give…well…some energy back.”
Nuclear energy doesn’t seem like such a good deal, then does it? Cuz we want science and hard answers, and we get intuition and fuzzy answers instead.
My point is…
…I have to give some credit to people who come up with a system or TRY to develop an equation that works for them.
I agree TOTALLY with you that no one equation will work for all instances. And it’s fair game to point out logical flaws in an equation.
But I think the folks who are at least trying to quantify an ROI deserve better than a rant and public embarrassment for their efforts.
Because nobody really has the answers to the questions that businesses are asking about using social media. At least not answers that are clear to understand why a business should invest significant time, money and resources into using social media.
These people you point out might be wrong, but in the spirit of collaboration, shouldn’t we be trying to work to make those equations better and come up with the cases where they might be applicable?
I’m not a math whiz by any stretch of the imagination, but I seem to recall that equations are good in some situations but not others. So using the equation to find the area of a triangle won’t work if I’m trying to discover the radius of a circle.
I’m with you in sentiment…but think the rant is a little harsh on people who seem well-intentioned and maybe just need more help on their math homework. 🙂
(and I do concur with other opinions here–if you use any synonym of “expert” when describing yourself, you probably ain’t one. I’ve been in this business for 10 years…long before the term ‘social media’ came into play, and about the boldest statement I’ll make is: “I know what I know, and I know what I DON’T know”.)
I hear ya. But let me askyou this:
You don’t think that people who claim to have discovered the cure for cancer (but really haven’t) and want to sell it to you in their own little branded bottle deserve to be poked a little a bit?
This is no different.
It isn’t hard to test an equation or a calculator.
Before “professionals” roll out their magic cure, their magic answer, they need to test it and make sure it works. That’s what professionals do. It’s the ethical and responsible thing to do.
If they don’t but still claim that their make-believe solution is legit, sorry, they deserve to be called out on it.
That said, note that I prefaced the video “critique” with these words:
“To be fair, it’s probable that whomever put this together genuinely thought that the thinking behind the equation and methodology was sound. There is no reason to think that anyone at Digital Royalty was trying to make a quick buck off unsuspecting clients when they developed this. (My guess is that they mean well.) But the fact remains that the people behind this thing don’t understand either Social Media or program measurement well enough to teach either.”
I think that’s fair and not unkind. 😉
I’m coming into this convo rather late, so I don’t know if I fully understand the various points of view. And I’ve been off in Linux space for a couple of weeks. But I come at this field as a researcher – a social media analytics researcher, if you will. I’ve spent a good bit of time over the past few months trying to figure out what’s even *possible* in the realm of tools, metrics, analytics, etc., especially Twitter text analytics.
And I’m mostly encouraged by what I see coming from the “industry”. For more details, you can see the discussion on http://bit.ly/hellno and some of the places linked there. Carri is right – “Social media has about a zillion more moving pieces, platforms and tactics, many of which are evolving by the day.” Mathematicians have a concept – “Life on the edge of chaos” – that I think describes the situation well. And what will emerge from this is a discipline.
Yes, there are charlatans – a *lot* of them, I think. Yes, they waste peoples’ time and money. Yes, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. But there is some real science underlying the field, there are some vendors with usable if not perfect tools, and there are at least two platforms – Facebook and Twitter – that appear to be capable of surviving and providing the foundation for this new discipline. So I will say to the frustrated and frightened, “Hang in there!”
Funny Brian Solis has clearly branded himself as a “social media expert,” check out his site “briansolis.com.”
But I digress, I’m just glad that I was able to provide you with some content for a post, I had a feeling you would have a lot to say on that video. Just so you know I get 60% of all the love that comes to you as a result; but we can negotiate.
Au Revoir (hellz ya I speak French…not really)
Well I guess Brian Solis can call himself anything he wants. More power to him.
Yeah. So I’ll send you 60% of the ire that comes my way too. See what you start? 😀
Excellent, excellent post. We MUST expose the hucksters, if not only for our own sanity.
@ayukna
Amen. “hucksters.” I like that.
Wow. Thanks. After four years of baccalaureate business school, one MBA, one MS in Education, a little time toying with a PhD in economics before settling on a far more practical EdD instead, I never knew who came up with the ROI term and expression (as in mathematical expression). All that formal education to find out a very young enthusiastic blonde invented in.
Who’d a thunk?
(yeah, Olivier, Jacob, Kim, Kris, Carri…hey, wait a minute! EVERYONE who commented here, before me, that is, would make a fantastic panel somewhere! What an intense collection of bright minds all right here commenting on one post. Way cool. Love y’all. Really.)
In Amy’s defense, she didn’t intend for Return On Influence to replace Return On Investment.
Fair enough.
I’m glad that we can have these discussions though. If we didn’t, where would we be this time next year? (And where might we be still?)
I know your ambition is to stop talking about social media ROI by next year, but I don’t think it’s likely. Only a small little part of the world knows you’re saying this. Get the message OUT and your dream to get to another topic might come true by 2011-2012 though. 😉
I keep harassing Olivier about collaborating on something and setting up some panel/discussion/chat/ebook but I guess since I’m not French I just don’t get the love I deserve; plus he’s always playing with his dogs or yelling at people.
Olivier 60% of the ire eh? Sure thing send ’em on over. I love angry people, I just hate the stupid one’s 🙂
Yakov
(I’m Jewish and a big holiday is coming up so I thought I’d use my Jewish name 🙂
grrrrr….I hate when I typo something and can’t fix it. I know it’s Olivier. It’s just that my typist had the day off, and one the of things I don’t know is how to type error-free. 🙂
No worries. The comments thing doesn’t let you make edits on your end? I need to plug in a better one.
True, but she did say, “At Royal Digital we came up with the term ROI: Return on Influence.”
I’m pretty sure ROI was probably around (as Return on Investment for sure, and as Return on Influence, most likely) long before she or Royal Digital was conceived.
And, in the intensity of the emotion of the debate, I’m afraid you might have missed the subtle (quite humorous) humor in my comment. Maybe tomorrow?
😀 No no, I got it. 😉
One last post (this one’s, like, purely self-promotional).
To subscribe to a free podcast (aren’t they all?) featuring Olivier Blanchard, Scott Monty, Tom Asacker, Ted Murphy of IZEA, and Ann Handley of MarketingProfs, click here.
Thanks, Olivier, for being on the show.
Olivier, This was a great post. One I have been wanting to write about for about a week.. but You killed it.. saved me the effort..lol
I did a little research on a top Social Media Guru that has been selling products for this and claiming he makes $1 per each friend,follower.
Yet when I follow his posts back to his blog he can barely get 5-10 RT’s from his 100,000 followers.
I find it funny that he can make $1 off each of his 100,000 followers, yet he can’t get more then 5 to RT his content..lol
That’s a trick I’d like to know.
Again thanks for the post.. Great Read.
Yeah, I run into those clowns from time to time. They’re a whole different breed. There’s one that charges $5K for 6 hour-long webinars. You should see the marketing for it. It’s sad.
Yea but people still buy it.. it’s crazy.
I tell people I know to use common sense even a little research will open your eyes.
Nicely done in pointing out the flaws – I plan to pass this piece along widely. And you also did a nice job in pointing to the fundamentals – that have not gone away as relics of MSM’s supposed demise.
One thing you did not mention that is also fundamental, and often neglected in the Social Media sphere – Caveat Emptor – let the buyer beware!
If you, as buyer, allow yourself to get caught up in the enthusiasm of “new media opportunities,” on the premise that SM is about trust, relationship and transparency, and do not due prudent due diligence, you will lose.
I’m an old Ad/PR guy, a former DM guy, and am learning new things here in the SM sphere. But I don’t bill (or sell) myself as a SM expert. I do refer folks to people I know who ARE doing good jobs, and I do recognize that while the SM world may still be in its Wild West stage, those of us who know the basics are still obliged to point out charlatan’s when we see them. Thanks for the reminder.
Thanks.
Yep, when I don’t feel I am the best person to help a company, I refer them to firms better equipped to do so. I do this on a pretty regular basis. I could be driving a nicer car and living in a bigger house, but I would rather do the right thing. 😉
I appreciate the comment, John. 🙂
Wow, good stuff – and 75 comments is pretty remarkable Return on influence/investment, whatever you prefer.
A spicy post, but I’m conflicted. You’re right to point out the exponential growth of self-styled “experts.” But it almost seems there’s a bit of “I was here first (with a few friends) and there’s no more room at the Inn.”
As I do my best to listen to those who were in early, like yourself (and most recently at an #140 meet up in NYC), I keep hearing these are still “early days” and there’s room for experimenting, even mistakes (to be learned from). And – room for new blood and new ideas.
So yes, let’s beware of pure hucksterism, but welcome in new practitioners who bring creativity and enter the field without claiming to be gurus or experts, but with talents that (when paired with partners who have been in the space awhile) add value.
Not sure where on that scale that leaves Amy and her team, could even be closer to the snake-oil side, but wanted to say I’m hoping you’ll “leave the light on” at the social media Inn.
Ok, if it’s block that metaphor time it’s time to sign off. Good post.
I completely understand where you’re coming from, Burns. There’s quite a bit of that going on. But let me point out a couple of things, at least as they relate to me:
1. I didn’t get in early on the Social Media thing. I wasn’t even really talking about it a year ago. I was talking about brand management, word-of-mouth, advertising, etc. but not SM. I wasn’t even on people’s radar when it comes to that topic. To me, SM was (and still is) just a very small part of a much broader operational mix. I’ve shifted my focus because someone had to start tackling some of the BS and setting things straight… and I didn’t want to wait for someone else to do it for us. 😉
2. I routinely recognize and promote “new” voices. I invite people to join the conversation, to infuse the discipline with their wisdom and insights. Though I read and follow Social Media “royalty” like Brogan, Solis, Owyang, Harte and Collier, they’re a relatively small part of my intellectual and best pratices entourage. 😉 My latest finds are @annaobrien, @kristofcreative and @cspenn (They’re brilliant.) So… to me, the doors of the Social Media Senate are wide open. (They need to be.) 😉
3. One of the benefits of SM is that we can have these types of discussions. If I need to get someone’s advice on an equation or methodology, I ping them on Twitter or Facebook. I call them via skype. I shoot them an email. Whatever the tool I use, I ask for their input. And they do the same thing.
Yesterday, I got three such requests from people who care about doing the best job they can. We review each other’s work. We help each other with slides and calculations and tactics. I am constantly asking people what tools they like to use. We discuss best practices on a regular basis. #pr20chat, #kaizenblog and #blogchat are three fantastic such forums on Twitter. People who are serious about this field participate (and we want them to). People who aren’t just craft silly little schemes all on their own, exclude themselves from the dialogue, and claim to have solved the measurement question. (As if there were a measurement question to begin with.) 😉
Not to single out Amy, but look… She has a million followers. Think about that. 1 million followers. I don’t even know how anyone can get that many followers unless they’re an Oprah or an Ashton. (It doesn’t hurt to have a friend in Shaq, evidently.) Yet, somehow, in all my time on Twitter (and I spend a lot of time there), I have yet to spot her in any of the conversations I’ve had with people about social media, measurement, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her leave a comment on someone’s blog post about measurement or best practices. I’ve never seen her speak at an industry event. If there’s a velvet rope outside the social media VIP room, she doesn’t appear to have ever stepped up to it. Trust me, she wouldn’t have been turned away.
But more importantly, if there were indeed a velvet rope outside the social media VIP room, I would be the first one to tear it the hell down. The more people participate in these discussions, the better. I still have a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to how to do certain things, and the faster I find the people who have the answers, the better. 😉
Thanks for you thoughts. I’ll keep making sure the light’s always on. 😉
Hey, thanks for the detailed and well thought out reply. I’ll look into some of those whom you admire, and maybe see you for a spell at the inn when I’ve traveled awhile. btw I landed on your blog via a Tweet from Kris Colvin. Look forward to speaking with you in the future – Burns
I struggle with the issue of measuring/not measuring every day with every client. Fact is, I don’t believe it’s possible to measure every aspect (or even most aspects) of social media and pin a value on them. I try to make that clear to everybody when we get started.
But corporate clients demand measurement because that’s what they understand, so everybody scrambles to come up with metrics. You have to respond to clients needs with some answers. Maybe you do that with a weather girl? Haven’t tried that yet but I’m not the weather girl type…
I’m as guilty as the next social media (your label here) for trying to both explain the value and quantify it. I got a lot of heat for the social media ROE talk I did yesterday on Brighttalk. Some said it was silly to try and others complained I didn’t give “hard metrics”. it’s a lose lose discussion. But you still gotta have it. The whole goal of the talk was to show different ways you can visualize the value of social media engagement so that you can explain it to other people.
All that said, there are a lot of people out there dazzling with elaborate metrics and no substance behind it at all. They make it harder for people who really do care about social engagement and community to have a reasonable discussion and actually move a plan forward to create community around a product or a brand.
Then there are those “certified social media experts” but that’s another rant and I already did that here: http://janetfouts.com/certified-in-social-media/
Thanks for the post. It’s important to keep pulling back the covers once in a while….
Right. You don’t want to measure everything. The old adage that “when you measure everything, you measure nothing” is very true. That isn’t to say that you shouldn’t measure as much as possible, but you should automate as much as you can, and only focus on what matters, especially as it pertains to reporting and analysis.
1. I prefer to give a decision-maker a concrete and succinct analysis than half an afternoon of random data.
2. I like to stick to the point. (The objectives. The results. What we know. What matters.)
3. I like to use solid methodology instead of making up BS to fill in the gap for what good scientific study can’t tell us.
There’s also another issue at work here. Data is at its best when it is parsed down to its most specific form. You can compare data in analysis and look for correlations, but you don’t want to combine data. Yet the “magic equation” crowd tries to combine data through some sort of measurement alchemy that completely defeats the purpose of the exercise. It’s a counterproductive and backward way to look at it. An equation of that type, in order to work, would have to a) be enormous and b) be so fluid and adaptable as to defeat the purpose of an equation to start with. It just doesn’t work that way. Equations are shortcuts. This discipline calls for serious brainpower and methodical work, not cheaply packaged cookie-cutter shortcuts. 😉
Last point: I don’t have a problem with the notion of an Engagement or Influence score/index. I think they have their place in all of this. But they have to be clearly separate from ROI, even in the choice of acronyms. Calling something that is a score, not a return “Return on X” doesn’t help legitimize it. It just leads to confusion and polemic. Know what I mean? I think it’s time hat things like ROE found another (non-ROI-style) nomenclature. 😉
Great comment. Thanks!
Wow, Olivier: great post, great discussion, wacky video!
Which raises another ROI sticky-wicket: how do you measure pleasure and deep emotional response. RODER?
Engaging with social media is often about engaging with great content, whether it’s a video, a song, a game, an idea, a conversation, a sentence, or a thoughtful response from a customer service rep. And to be good, that content has to be created by practitioners who have talent and not just formulas; intuition and not just calculators; judgment and not just checklists; and hearts and not just buzzwords.
Best line: “If you think of the online universe as just a big data universe…”
There’s the rub… I don’t.
There are simple metrics to measure what Amy refers to as “warm” data.
Here are a few no-brainers:
1. Sentiment (mix). You can look at sentiment as a net data set. Look at positive and negative sentiment as a ratio, and see how it evolves over time. Is the mix increasingly positive? Increasingly negative? Increasingly neutral?
2. Sentiment (net). Also look at net numbers in positive, neutral and negative mentions. This adds context to the sentiment mix.
3. On blogs: Comment analysis. See 1 and 2, above.
4. Other WOM, particularly recommendations, online reviews, etc. Caveat: Online is easier to track than offline.
5. Customer satisfaction surveys still work. They’re old school, but when done well, they can give you solid, actionable data.
6. I still think that transactions are still one of the best indicators that people love what you have to offer as a company. When people like you, they buy from you. I would parse this down to a nice loyalty indicator like Yield (average $ spent per sale). If yield goes up, it’s usually because your stock is up in people’s hearts and minds. You can also look at frequency of transactions (people shopping with you more often is a change in behavior. If it isn’t driven by a sale or promo, maybe you have something.
Those are good places to start if you want to… quantify a gut feeling for the C-suite. 😉
Oh, and one last thing:
You don’t want to try and batch any of these values in an equation. Keep them separate. Look at them individually and as a whole, but don’t try to combine them mathematically like Amy did. The less you manipulate data, the more truthful and relevant it is. Stick to the facts. 😉
I’m new to social media, but I definitely can see a great need for it. Thank you for the thoughtful article and the explicit video.
i strongly believe that the measure of social media activity should be the number of conversions..simply saying conversion rate 🙂
That’s one way to look at it, but where? Online? Offline? And what kind? To some, a conversion is a transaction. To others, a conversion is simply someone signing up for a newsletter. Conversions are part of the story, but not the whole answer.
You also have to look at the volume of online/social mentions, and changes in the positive/neutral/negative sentiment mix.
You also have to look at community growth and rate of engagement.
It goes on and on… but all of this to point out that although conversions are important, they are far from being the only thing you should measure or look at. 😉
Hi Olivier. All this ROI talk is making my brain hurt. I find it easier to avoid the “Do they know/don’t know how to measure” talk by finding out first if they have any real experience putting together a marketing or communications plan. If they can’t take me through the process of goal-setting, audience identification, strategic development, tools and tactics, etc., then I don’t really need to worry about whether they know how to measure anything.
Unfortunately, I don’t think a significant number of the flies that have been attracted to social media can pass this test.
That’s actually a good place to start. Agreed. And much to my chagrin, you flies comment is probably painfully accurate.
Dear Olivier and the broader community:
Fascinating discussion. Enjoy following your blog and twitter stream. Do agree with your core points here. Easy to get taken in by “experts” and I don’t think that is new for digital media. We saw this at the beginning of Web age, where every ad agency claimed to “understand” digital. See where that got them, right?
My compliments to you and your community of smart people. Might take hours to track down all the good ideas and interesting points of view from both the post and the comments. On a personal note, it is so refreshing to see how much thought is going into each of your responses, and I love hearing that you only got into social media about a year ago. I remember attending the IAB Social Media event this year in May, but I also recall attending the same event in 2008 only it was titled IAB User-Gen Content.
I qualify as a newbie when it comes to adding my voice to the social media conversation. But, having been involved in digital media and traditional media for over 20 years, I recognize that we are all viewing the paradigm shift up close, what we now quantify as “social media” is hugely transformative, even if we didn’t call “it” social media two years ago.
The current discussion taking place here, at your blog, and at other blogs and on Twitter and in real time and F2F, is about the real best-practices of operational social media that we will all need to succeed in connecting audiences together for brands, or for causes and advocacy, or for whatever reason we seek connection. We’re all defining the different facets of what we can call “social media operations.”
The explosive growth of social media (4 out or 5 online adults participate socially) has led to so many new tools, practices, ways of marketing, ways of engaging, ways of listening and ways of connecting, that we are effectively redefining what it means to be involved in digital media operations. So, we can start defining social media operations: Here are several components, IMHO.
Monitoring, whether it is with Radian6 or other enterprise-level software or whether it is with Google and Twitter search alone, is one aspect of the operational need.
Building presence within social networks, is another need (using FBML, tools like Buddy Media’s system and Involver’s product, or page management systems still being developed).
Acquisition, or marketing to engender growth of audience within these social nets is another practice (whether via PPC advertising or by the sheer quality of the content one pushes out into the social graph).
Community management, including employee policies, style guidelines, and other best-practices is a key component.
And, of course, near and dear to the heart of this discussion, Measurement is of utmost importance; we are still learning how to measure social media, and as several of your commenters pointed out, there are a number of different moving parts to the social media mix, and metrics are different across different platforms.
Hard to see one formula or even one product developed that ties all of the metrics listed in say, Anna’s sweet chart here (http://bit.ly/4xKxo). We’ll need to develop a multitude of social media ops skill sets and the art of this new field comes in combining creative content development and editorial strategies (story matters!) with social media tools and tech to connect content and audience together.
Thanks for starting the conversation. Look forward to listening to your thoughts.
You understand this well. We’re going to be looking a lot more closely at best practices and the operational framework of Social Media as a discipline. 😉
Great to have you along for the ride.
Great post.
But this isn’t just about misrepresentation or even simple ignorance. It is about the positive feedback loop of the Internet.
Because knowledge is so easily accessible, everyone is a consultant. Go to LinkedIn and everyone is a President, CEO, consultant, visionary, speaker, writer. At one time, not so long ago, one had to actually accomplish something to be able to call themselves these names. Today, people can spend a day on the Web gathering info and magically name themselves anything they want.
Your post was dead on. But it is not the illness, it is the symptom. This is the positive feedback loop that easily-accessible information has caused. More information (A) means it is easier to learn (B) more learning leads to more information. Unfortunately, the quality of that information is spiraling downward–as evidenced by SpideyGirl.
Interesting. I’m going to have to give that some thought. I think you’re on to something.
Olivier,
A great post or should I say provocation ? After spending 45 minutes or so reading all the responses, I’d like to commend you on taking the time to respond, often at length, to most of the comments. We often hear the buzz words of engagement & conversation linked to social media, yet too often in my opinion traditional marketing thinking is reflected in tweets, facebook post and company blogs. (One way communication) You unlike many are walking the talk of social media, evident by your effort to engage each person individually with thoughtful and honest responses. Thanks
Thanks, Bill. I wouldn’t have much of a leg to stand on here if I didn’t occasionally respond to comments. Agreed. 😉
The trick is… I really enjoy having these discussions.
Seriously, you can’t take a girl wearing a Spiderman shirt seriously. Maybe that’s a little sexist.
I am new to the whole Social Media ROI stuff. For that matter, I am pretty new to Social Media in general (4 months). And by far, your stuff is absolutely the most entertaining and most helpful. The basic concepts seem to be common sense. I’m a Computer Science graduate, so maybe I just think about things differently, but you definitely just can’t measure ROI by checking out how many people are following you on Twitter.
Now, I am of the belief that Social Media is incredibly powerful. But you have to be able to back it up. And it most definitely takes time. Just like any other marketing campaign.
Your stuff is very insightful. I will be watching all the time. Thanks *thumbs up*
I get it. I do. But I think the tenor of this discussion is a little out of bounds.
Disagreeing with someone’s methodology is a-okay by me. Calling someone a charlatan is not.
I know Amy Martin. I’ve actually known her for a long time. She is not a charlatan. She is doing good work for interesting clients, using social media to amplify brands.
She cut her teeth handling social media for the Phoenix Suns, smartly combining social media with offline experiences (a program I wrote about here: http://bit.ly/rGUEz
Nowhere on her Web site, Twitter account or otherwise (as far as I can tell), does she proclaim herself or her company as social media experts. But, given the work she’s doing for Shaquille O’Neal, Chicago White Sox, UFC and other brands, I’d say she certainly has more real world social media experience than most of the folks out there.
Charlatanism implies intent. I can say first-hand that Digital Royalty is not hired based on their social media formula. It’s not the calling card of Amy, or her firm. She’s in charge of building buzz online, and creating positive sentiment that manifests itself across multiple social platforms.
In the video, Amy talks about selecting from among many KPIs. She does not (as far as I can tell) position this formula as the holy grail of social media measurement. She does not position it as a return on investment formula. It’s how she demonstrates what’s going on to her clients.
Now, are there holes in the methodology? I believe there are. Is it dangerous to create a “formula” when it’s not fully road tested? Certainly, I’d say this post and the subsequent negative comments prove that danger is all too real.
But, considering that the vast majority of people engaged in social media are not measuring ANYTHING, I give Amy and anyone else credit for trying to work through the issues. Certainly more so than those who gleefully pile on and cry “snake oil” with scant ideas of their own about how to build a better mousetrap.
Further, those that engage in personal attacks about a person’s gender or appearance aren’t fit to be commenting on anything in my opinion.
I do appreciate Olivier’s detailed questions about the measurements featured in the video. As usual, his methodology is impeccable. But, to suggest that one person’s definition of KPIs (not return on investment) somehow calls into question their professional ethics, or de facto is evidence of opportunism is as flawed as the formula everyone is railing against.
It’s a less than perfect formula from a very good person.
I would have hoped that the social media community would try to build up good ideas instead of tearing down ones with which they disagree. But maybe I’m just old school.
Jay, I hear you loud and clear. Please read the post again, especially the part in which I introduce Amy’s unfortunate video:
“I don’t want to make any assumptions about anyone’s motives in this specific case, so to be fair, it’s probable that whomever put this together genuinely thought that the thinking behind the equation and methodology was sound. There is no reason to think that anyone at Digital Royalty was trying to make a quick buck off unsuspecting clients when they developed this. (My guess is that they mean well.) But the fact remains that the people behind this thing don’t understand either Social Media or program measurement well enough to teach either. And that’s the danger: Regardless of people’s intentions and motives, bad methodology is bad methodology no matter how you look at it. And bad methodology quickly turns into bad business for everyone involved.”
I took the time to write that paragraph specifically to make sure my readers understood that I was NOT calling Amy a charlatan. I don’t know how much clearer that intro can be. 😉
That said, I DO believe that we all have a professional responsibility to ask ourselves serious questions about our own level of expertise and understanding of this field.
To your point, Amy has done some pretty cool things in Social Media. And perhaps her strengths lie more with a strategic and/or tactical role. But it is painfully clear from this video that Amy is not ready to play an analytical role.
Last week, a data analyst (yes, a real one) took a glance at Amy’s “method” and gave it her own review. You should read it: http://www.randomactsofdata.com/?p=103
Bottom-line, Jay: If you don’t know how to do something, don’t pretend that you do. Either partner with someone who does (how hard is it in Social Media to find people with specific skills?) or admit that you don’t.
Amy isn’t at the center of my article either. There’s a much bigger problem here, and Amy is just one small piece of it: People not qualified to sell themselves as an authority on a subject simply shouldn’t. Whether they do it maliciously or they are just naive.
Fact: Amy should have worked out her method and equation before making that video and presenting it as a legitimate method.
Fact: Amy should have made sure that the equation she presents in the video is the same as the one in the graphic she attached to it. If she understood an ounce of what she is talking about, she wouldn’t have made such a critical error. (Which leads me to suspect that the method isn’t hers to begin with.)
Fact: Amy could have answered the specific questions I posted on her blog instead of skirting them. Knowing how to respond to criticism or simple questions on a blog shows a certain level of expertise in the discipline as well, Jay. That’s all I’ll say about that.
Fact: Amy’s boss could have opted not to threaten to beat me up for pointing out the flaws in her method. That situation was completely ridiculous and uncalled for. Though it had no bearing on this article, it adds to the level of social media incompetence surrounding Amy that probably led her to think that her video and methodology were solid enough to publish. (She is probably getting very bad advice.)
Fact: Her same boss could have understood enough about Social Media not to remove comments on her post that questioned her method. Not just mine, but Mack Collier’s as well. He eventually restored them, but only after folks on Twitter called him out on his behavior. See previous point.
Look, if you or I put out a method or video or blog post THIS bad, we would get thrown under the bus 100 times worse than this. As well we should. The point is that we wouldn’t ever publish something this bad. Because we’re smarter than that. And because we know what we’re doing. And therein lies the difference.
Just because Amy is a young lady (and an acquaintance of yours) doesn’t mean I or ANYONE in the Social Media management community should give her a pass or turn a blind eye to this. We have a responsibility not to allow complete nonsense to be passed off as solid methodology. There are more important issues here than hurting someone’s feelings, Jay. If you’re ready to be a leader in a field, bring it. Own it. Be responsible for it. But if you aren’t ready, spend more time learning, working, tweaking, and have enough self respect not to publish remedial crap that even my 7th grader could spot a mile away.
I’ve noticed a tendency in the Social Media world, and especially within the speaking/conference circuit, to praise everybody regardless of whether or not praise is deserved. I routinely see case studies being presented that make no sense whatsoever: Anecdotes being presented as data, unproven assumptions, complete fabrications about make-believe social media programs being touted as tremendous successes… And no one in our little group of 50 calls BS on any of that either. I have a problem with that kind of thing.
I want to be friends with everyone too, and I understand the dynamics of “scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours,” but neither my integrity nor my common sense are for sale. Friends or not, buddy or not, respect or not, I will always call a cat a cat: If you publish a royally horrendous turd either knowingly or because you were too lazy to proof it, I will call you on it. I won’t make it personal, but I will question the validity of your arguments until they start making sense. The same goes with Trey Pennington, Mack Collier, Chris Brogan, and the rest of the A-listers, no matter how much I dig them. Believe it.
Perhaps more importantly, if I ever publish a turd, I fully expect (and hope) to be called on it by everyone in the industry as well. (And I know I will.) That’s how disciplines and industries manage their credibility: By not turning a blind eye to bull$hit. Policing ourselves keeps us all honest and pushes us to improve best practices as a community.
This isn’t the wild west anymore, Jay. If we just live and let live, Social Media management will just turn into another WOMM. We don’t want that.
When you turn a blind eye to the kind of method presented by Amy in this video, or even Charlene Li’s in the first piece (the ROI calculator), you allow this discipline’s credibility (and your own, for that matter) to erode. It’s as simple as that. Good people like Amy and Charlene sometimes get in over their heads with certain aspects of this discipline, and we have to be able to tell them when that happens.
If they choose not to respond or go back to the drawing board, that’s their business.
As to the comments about Amy’s general presentation, not just the method, I can’t speak to that, really. The Spidey T-shirt is pretty cool, IMO. Was it the best choice of wardrobe to complement the presentation? Maybe. Maybe not. It’s entirely possible that if Amy’s method had been solid, it would have actually helped boost people’s opinion of her: “She’s brilliant AND she has cool taste in T-shirts.” The instantly recognizable T-shirt might have even made her famous.
As it were, because the method was so bad, the T-shirt may have backfired. Who knows.
I don’t think that anyone here was disrespectful to Amy or purposely hateful.
Thanks for the comment. 🙂
Thanks, Bill.
Sorry, I forgot to paste Anna O’Brien’s analysis of Amy’s method. Here it is: http://www.randomactsofdata.com/?p=103
In addition to other virtues that may surface now or in the future, I’m hopeful that this brouhaha will serve as a laboratory on the meaning and value of engagement.
In high school, I was taught by Jesuits. There is a great deal I don’t remember about high school, aside from at least one good story about each of my teachers. I did, however, receive excellent and lasting instruction on the value of argument (the classical kind) and constructive criticism.
They way I look at it, someone who takes the time to craft a thoughtful blog post on a topic of interest would expect and embrace robust discussion that asks questions, presents alternative (and contrarian) viewpoints, and at times provides polite but firm instruction. Especially in this small community, where at one level or another we are all trying to learn. It’s okay to leave an attaboy (attaperson, whatever) just to say you were there. But if you happen to disagree, you should say so. If you see a porous argument or baseless claim, call it out. You owe it to yourself, to the writer, and to the community.
Informed, objective feedback is a powerful tool. I don’t see how you can have true “engagement” without it. Being constructively critical isn’t easy. It may take being a little less thin-skinned at times, a little less strident and provocative at others. Realizing that the customer isn’t always right, and figuring out how to deal with it. Recognizing the presence of wisdom, but also noting its absence. Whatever it takes, it’s important that, as writers and readers, we try.
Olivier. Nice post and you’re voicing something here that that so many people are already thinking but haven’t really written too much about.
The thing I’m curious about about is why you say “This stuff isn’t just going to go away on its own”? I agree and think that it might not go away fast but I do think like any new technology or business method it will take time before people who truly understand the part social media plays in the overall “new era” of business will be doing the hiring of “Social Media Experts”.
Look at the dot com boom period. At that time anyone who called themselves a “web designer” could get them self a high paying job. I at age 20 was a great example. Now as times have progressed that just doesn’t fly anymore, companies have a way better idea of what a web designer does and is expected to do.
At the moment since in the scheme of things social media is fairly new and everyone is trying to jump on it, it is a bit of a mess like you are saying but I do believe with time the true “experts” will emerge.
Very nice thought provoking post!
Sam Zipursky
This babble is humorous, but it’s the best display I’ve seen for a Spiderman T-Shirt ever.
Wouldn’t it be a better idea to just make a quality product, talk about why it’s good, and make some social connections to talk about it?
Nice fancy words with the “metrics” and all.
Ok, Olivier , I promiss I ve tried to watch the whole video but I cannot stand with it sorry.
Definitely there is a lot of noise and “experts” out there, but at the end I feel (and I am not an expert) that even though there are not really proven metrics available, there are still some tactics we tend to forget and we should put upfront before meassuring our SM engagement,etc.And that is strategy and goals, when companies start entering into SM they all have different aproaches and they are looking at diferent goals.
So I think the first thing to do in order to do the analisis is define how I am going to use it and what I want to get in return. As the metrics for a company wanting to increase their customer service should differ form the company that wants to sell a product or service, or a company that wants to increase and improve their brand awareness.
It is just an opinion , what do you feel ?
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Olivier, this post rings true with me as I and many of my colleagues in the interactive/web industry are very skeptical of anyone calling themselves a social media expert for many of the reasons you mention.
However, here’s what fuels most of the skepticism in my experience: it’s hard to find a single social media “expert” who openly gives real-world examples of how their work actually paid off for a real paying client, i.e., “I did X and sales/donations/(insert metric) increased by Y”… or even better, a client saying it for them in the form of a testimonial. It’s rare to even come across a qualitative recommendation from a real client who is not another social media “expert.” Actually, I don’t think I’ve come across a SME yet who goes to the trouble of presenting any kind of verifiable results of their work
While I like what you’re saying in this post, I haven’t found any examples or even recommendations from real-world clients on any of your websites either (and pardon me if I just missed them – I really tried to find them). Can you tell me why that is? Am I missing something?
Great point, Paul.
If you are interested in working with me, I would prefer to put you in touch with some of my clients and peers directly than pimp perfectly crafted recommendations and praises on my website. That way, you can ask a real person questions, get context, and most importantly get the full story. I’m not a huge fan of self-serving praise only a few months into a relationship. It kind of makes me cringe.
Personally, I think it’s too soon for me to release any case studies or post any recommendations from clients. My focus is on long term effects (sustainable), not short term “campaign” wins. Until I’ve had a relationship with a client for 12 months or more, I don’t feel comfortable presenting any successes (or failures, for that matter). So, the written recommendations will eventually find a home here, but I am not going to post any until I am comfortable with the fact that they are 100% deserved. I’m still in a “wait and see” mode. If that puts my credibility in question with a few people for a few more months, that’s a small price to pay for peace of mind and integrity. I would rather err on the side of caution than take advantage of clients during the honeymoon phase of our relationship. Know what I mean?
As for successes with previous employers, they weren’t clients so that data doesn’t belong here.
That said, I don’t claim to be an expert. I still cringe a little when other people call me that. The way I see it, I know how to develop, integrate, manage and measure social media programs, but I don’t consider myself an expert the way that a brain surgeon or a sniper or an pastry chef are experts. There are still many things about this space that I haven’t figured out yet. Expertise is a relative thing, I think. If there were a word for “I know what I’m doing and I am good at what I do,” I would go for that. But “expert,” eh… Not my trip.
I can’t take her seriously because of the shirt she is wearing.
That seems to be a theme. You aren’t alone.
Just saw this. Great post. Dead on. Our market is now flooded with these “experts” who think twittering about twittering is the only requirement needed to achieve social media guru status. I hardly consider myself an expert, but my company’s social media measurement system seems to be completely in line with what you’re advocating. To me, it was just common sense. The things we are doing with social media are much more effective than what our competitors are doing in our market. We want to keep it that way so we aren’t going to share our strategies or methods. The downside to that is we sit by and watch these “experts” posture and pose, leading a number of good companies and individuals down unproductive paths because they simply don’t know better than to listen to the person who simply tweets the most about being an expert.
I hear ya on the not wanting to share. It’s one of the reasons why I haven’t been in a hurry to share some of my clients’ “case studies.” I’ve signed NDAs with many of them specifically because of this.
Enjoyed reading your post. I think you bring up some excellent points. It’s all to easy to call yourself an expert in Social Media. I agree with some the other posters when they say that when they get to certain level they realise how much more they have to learn. This has certainly been my experience.
Social Media is still very young and still evolving. It’s really annoying when people jump on the bandwaggon for a quick buck.
It all reminds me of a quote:
“Only a fool knows everything. A wise man knows how little he knows.”
Holy crap, what a lot of comments. I can’t read them all, but I wanted to say that I remember when @AnnaOBrien did a dissection of this video, and that made me her ultimate fan.
You’re speaking the truth here…there needs to start being some standards in social media…there’s a few that are really ruining the business the rest of us.
The problem with speaking out against incompetent or fraudulent social media experts is that it appears self-serving – and sometimes it is. For example, the loudmouth blowhard Gary Vaynerchuk recently ranted that 99.5% of all social media experts are clowns. Of course, Gary has started his own consulting firm, Vaynerchuk Media, to advise clients on social media, so his motives are suspect.
It’s kind of a catch-22. But the fact remains that most of them are hacks. I guess only time will tell who was for real and who was just a poser. 😉